Saturn-PC Server thoughts

[segadreamcaster]

Ok, this was brought up in the contacts thread, so thought I would divert it here to avoid that thread getting too far off topic.

As has already been mentioned, there is a way to connect the Dreamcast via a PC-DC server which enables net play and some seem curious about similar possibilities with the Saturn.

It should be very easy to enable web browsing via the netlink using a Saturn-PC setup as it would essentially be the exact same scenario as we currently have on the Dreamcast...as a PC-DC user I have not tested this on the saturn as it seems more or less pointless as it would not enable us to play any games.

If anybody particularly wishes to browse the net via a Saturn-PC connection it may be worth looking into..but for netlink games it will be an entirely different project...one that I cannot see ever working for various reasons....mainly that we would have to somehow route to a PC which would then have to somehow call on another Saturn over the internet and then convert back to an analogue phone signal that the saturn on the other end can understand.

Another thing must also be added into the mix here, and that is the lag that would be experienced if we were to route over the internet. The whole reason for the lag free environments experienced with the netlink is the direct connection, no internet, no servers, just a plain simple direct connection between two users...the extremely slow speeds of the netlink would most certainly be obvious over such a setup

I admit I am no expert on this but the basics make it very difficult and perhaps impossible...especially for our limited group.

Anyway, thats my thoughts

One other thing btw, there may be issues with a Saturn-PC server for web browsing, not sure...I know that people have had issues with getting the PAL 33k modem to connect to a PC server (myself included) and with the netlink being significantly slower again this doesnt offer much encouragment

[XL2K5]

Thanks for starting this tread
Since I already set up a Dreamcast-PC server, I will try the Saturn-Pc server after I get my Netlink (still waiting for it)
I know there are some programs that allow you to download the software, then use it to dial other users directly (VoIP)
Now, maybe there are some programs that allow you to connect an RJ-11 cable to your computer's modem and then use it to dial other people's computer (or maybe some adapters to plug the RJ-11 to the computer in some ways).
The main problem will have to do with the compression of the analog signal to sent it online, if the compression isn't good then it be slow and unstable.
I'm not an expert neither, but I believe it would be a great long term solution to make the Saturn Netlink scene more alive.
Plus we could setup some kind of real time chat environnement to organize games.
The first step to that will be to try the Saturn-PC server, which should work like the Dreamcast's one.


EDIT :
Found something interesting : http://www.voiplink.com/Linksys_SPA_310 ... a-3102.htm
Analog converter
If someone can find a cheaper model, it might help playing NetLink on the net.

[grolt]

It will be an interesting project, and even if it can only be used for the internet, that would be great. Or even if you just plugged it into your computer to use the faster 56K modems to connect, that would help as well. Definitely some unexplored territory!

[Xranger60]

I believe routing Internet browsing to the Saturn through a computer should be totally possible, as it's basically the same concept and software as Dreamcast. Online game play is totally another issue. I don't think we'll see a solution for this.

I would love some sort of server situation, to match NetLinkers up, but it would be extraordinarily difficult. Unless anyone here can program a server built from the ground up to accept a NetLink call, and then connect it with another NetLink, then it's just not feasible. Some of the earlier members might remember when a certain user was here with some programming skills and knowledge, trying to code something similar to bring back Xband, which was based on the same scheme. He hasn't returned but I suspect he's given up, as it's just technically very hard to do. I hope he comes back some day though.

As for routing calls through a computer, this is comparable to using VOIP service through your phone carrier- Lag would be a problem. It's virtually the same as using VOIP, but probably even less reliable. These services are meant to carry voice, and they do that well, but at times there are noticeable delays that would really interfere with the gaming experience.

What really voids this entire discussion is that there really isn't as much need for this type of thing anymore. Nationwide calling plans are cheaper than ever before, hell, mine only costs about $35 a month for a reliable, old, landline phone, that works great with NetLink. Landline is basically the best way to go, as VOIP will give you lag and make things stutter. NetLink games need to have the modems in constant communication... lag means that the game freezes while the modems re-sync, and this can be very frustrating.

[XL2K5]

Yes, I guess.
I for sure won't try too hard to make NetLink games work online (else I would have already bought that analog converter, lol)
But I'll try the PC-Saturn server, maybe tomorrow if I have time, since I have already setup my PC-Dc server.
Of course, not much uses for that, except that it would mean that the NetLink can do it (I heard some Dreamcast modems can't connect on PC-DC, I don't know if it's true or it's just that people didn't setup their server correctly).
About lag / compression, that's for sure a problem.
I really don't know how the Saturn would behave.
The key would be to send uncompressed audio over the internet, but then packet losses would be another problem.
Honestly, I won't try too hard for that, maybe just make suggestions unless I find something that doesn't require me to buy stuff, and I won't try to mess coding a server (I majored in computer science, but I'm not really familiar with programming servers, I only did that like one and it was only a chatting program, lol)


Oh, btw, a bit offtopic : Anyone ever tried to swap Duke Nukem 3D's maps with Quake or Powerslave's maps? (and change their filename for fit DN3D's ones?)
Think it would be worth messing with that?
If it's feasible (since they use the same engine, but of course the engine most be modified, plus the textures and other such problems like that) it might be worth wasting a few hours trying that.
Perhaps making a "mod" would give more interest in the NetLink?
I've been wondering recently if I should try to do that or put my free time to continue trying to modify the source code of UT's dedicated server to make it compatible with Dreamcast's version.

[Xranger60]

A mod would be something cool, but again, I don't know if it would be worth the time required, if it's possible. Being able to swap levels probably won't convince people to spend money acquiring the NetLink and games, even though it would be a cool feature to have, no doubt.

[grolt]

I say definitely try the map swap with Duke. That would be amazing to play Quake on the NetLink! Great idea, too, and something that certainly seems feasible.

The way the cost of international calling plans are dropping, I'd say in a few years time it will totally be accessible to a majority of the population, making the NetLink more practical than ever before. I could see some new people taking an interest in it then. The flip side, though, is that with the influx of digital landlines, there will also be a dwindling potential user base as well, since even if long distance is free, the modems seem to hang on any calls outside of a local area (I should know, it's happened countless times to me now!).

[XL2K5]

Ok, well, I tried the PC-Saturn server idea, and it doesn't seem to work.
I don't have good enough knowledge of modem technologies, but it just didn't seem to work at all, my modem never picked up the call, while it works with my Dreamcast.
That probably also means that it's useless to think about a way to make the Saturn play over ip using a computer, unless it's just my modem, but I really doubt it since it works with my Dreamcast and my Netlink must be the same model as the rest.
As I mentionned in another topic, the map swap with Quake didn't work.
Or maybe it would if I burned it properly, but I guess the engine used in Quake must be heavily modified.
I guess it's more likely to work with PowerSlave, which I have yet to have.