Custom console w/ netlink & wirless controller questions

[Macabre]

I've glossed over this site a few times, always enjoying the idea but never indulging myself.

I'm a sega fan-boy, and my favorite console is obviously the saturn. But i'm not much of a game fan-boy as a hardware junkie; I have a huge collection of games, but rather enjoy finding the rarities in the controllers or consoles and adapters. I wont bother listing my collection, but for this topic, and this forum, its important to note;

~saturns galore!
~i have one netlink still mint in box, and have only wondered of what would happen if i were to open it

Now with this general info down, I'm also into custom works, and am currently working myself up to a huge project, with two smaller projects as supporting experience.

Most of my ideas have been spilled out in this thread;

http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=34088

But I have a feeling I'll find more valuable information on two questions here!

First, as stated in the linked thread (its very long, sorry if its a bore!), Saturn Bomberman is by far my favorite of the franchise, and if you read down a few replys, you will see that one of my saturns is going to be modded to a custom console itself, completely dedicated to the game.

But having such dedication to the game without experiencing every facet of the game sounds wrong, since I've never had the chance to play it via netlink!

From reading stuff here I now know that it can be played 2v2, and that sounds more than enticing! But I have questions that might make me change my consoles plans;

1.) Are there different netlink levels than the standard multiplayer maps? If i recall seeing youtube footage there might be something resembling a racecar arena of sorts. Having more maps would make me defiantly want to proceed with the following idea.

2.) Are the same characters selectable as the standard multiplayer, or are there more / less?

3.) I know that getting the netlink "online" was a fun trinket of an idea, but has anyone actually made any dlc like maps, character skins or anything for saturn bomberman?

4.) The important one; is it possible to have two saturns sitting next to each other with two netlink carts connected directly into each other?


The possible idea if the last is true is one of two things;

~The custom console will actually have two saturns inside the shell, with two sets of controller out ports (the second would only have two controller ports obviously), with two t.v. out cords, and two power supplies.

~This custom console would turn into a pair of consoles, a black bomb and a (either red, power, or spike) bomb console with the second saturn, with two controller ports, a telephone line port, power port, and t.v. out cords.



Of course if having two systems and t.v.'s back to back doesnt work then this entire idea is scratched for just the 10-player console.

But regarding my major work-in-progress, my saturn friends still might be able to help!

Does anyone have any experience with saturn wireless controllers? Does anyone know if the saturn wireless controllers (which came in a set of two), could be used with the multi-tap (ignore the shell and phsyical resistance)?

If they are like my wireless genny controllers then I'm thinking they are infra-red, and such only two can work at one time, but do they work at different frequencies? And if so is it possible to change the frequencies on the third and fourth controller and their receiver so that there won't be any crossover?


Thats alot of rambling and questions, but any help and ideas would be greatly appreciated!


And hey, if it just so happens that I end up making a pair of "bomb" saturn consoles, both can be on netlink, so I might see some of you soon!

~Monkey

[Macabre]

Forgot to add a last question pertaining to saturn bomberman that's been bugging me for a while and might be fun too;

Does the weather change cheat work with the netlink levels?

[JerryTerrifying]

4.) The important one; is it possible to have two saturns sitting next to each other with two netlink carts connected directly into each other?

No.

You could have two phone lines in the same house and have them next to eachother though.

[Macabre]

As in two separate phone numbers? Or two separate wall mounts of the same phone line?

[JerryTerrifying]

Two separate phone numbers. Two different lines. It has to connect through the telephone, no way around it.

Also out of curiosity what other custom projects have you done?

[Warp2063]

Two separate phone numbers. Two different lines. It has to connect through the telephone, no way around it.

Partly true. You definitely can't just connect the two directly together. To dial out, the Saturn requires a dial tone, and to pick up, the Saturn requires a ring signal. However, you don't need two phone lines to do this.

The only way to do this without using two phone lines is by using a telephone line simulator - a box that provides a dial tone for the Saturn dialing "out" and a ring signal for the Saturn that should be "picking up". They make these for prisons, people doing telecommunications testing, and telephone aficionados. As such, they're not very common, and therefore kind of pricey, especially for ones that do all that automatically. A cheap, manual one might be around $100, while you're probably looking at closer to $200 for a cheap automated one. It's been a while since I went looking for them... I could be wrong on the prices.

Another method would be a PABX, but a low estimate on one of those would probably be a grand. Usually you find something like that on a school campus, in a hospital... anything where you'd have to dial an extension to reach the correct person.

I've made a rough design and program for a cheap one that would cost $20-$30 to build, but I lack the electronics knowledge to finish it. I'm a programmer, darn it, not an electrical engineer! =P (I know some electrical engineers, but I've never enlisted their help in doing the calculations to finish it.)

If I had a finished plan, I could definitely build it.


As for DLC, the Saturn didn't have anything like that. XBL hadn't been invented yet, and even the Dreamcast didn't do anything like the download of additional levels, to my knowledge. A modified version of the game could theoretically hold additional levels and such, but you'd probably have to make major changes to get it to work properly, and both systems would need a copy, and be able to play a burned disc. Not worth it.


If the controllers are infrared, there's a good chance a second pair would interfere with the first. However, if your knowledge of electronics is sufficient, you can accomplish anything. I rather doubt it's a frequency issue... you'd just need to instruct the second pair to transmit different IR codes... which I'd assume would require replacing the controller's transmitter and the base's receiver logic.


I don't know anything about this weather change cheat. Is it an AR thing or an in-game thing? If it's an AR thing, definitely not; you can't have the AR attached at the same time. I don't know about in-game, though.


Netlinks don't survive well in captivity. If your Netlink has been sealed in the box too long, its plastic will probably have suffered from lack of oxygen and have become brittle. =P (just kidding)

[Macabre]

Well fudge on the idea of having a bomberman party with two tv's back to back. If my finances stay strong I still might elect to make a pair of consoles, as netlink does sound fun, and when my roomm8 moves out, he's going to really miss our bomberman games. Assuming he's willing to pay for a phone line (even if its threw his cable), gifting him the second of the pair would be an awesome idea.

The weather cheat? Isn't this site dedicated to like five games, and you don't know of the level selection in saturn bomberman? (just kidding around, I only found out about it a while ago, and I've had the game since release!) Its the in-game feature where you select the time of day (dawn, noon, dusk, night) to alter the maps with more goodies (extra conveyor belts, arrows, warp pads, ect).

I think I read that when playing saturn bomberman via netlink, the levels are auto-selected. So is there absolutely no way to control which version of which level you get to play?

But I'm still curious about how the netlink gameplay differs from standard multiplayer if anyone has much experience, especially when dealing with 2v2 games.

Thanks for the help guys! I don't own a wireless saturn controller to fiddle with, but I do have quite a few genesis ones. I'll gently take apart one and see if I can post some pic's on various forums to see if there's much I can do with determining what and how to tinker with the transmitter and receivers. From what pictures of the saturn ones I've found, they look remarkably similar.

[Manji]

I think I read that when playing saturn bomberman via netlink, the levels are auto-selected. So is there absolutely no way to control which version of which level you get to play?

But I'm still curious about how the netlink gameplay differs from standard multiplayer if anyone has much experience, especially when dealing with 2v2 games.

unfortunately ive never had the chance to set up a 2v2 game, but from my experience in the games i've played with the people here at the League, there's no manual selection of any options once the game starts. the netlink does the simple task of connecting the players and then everything else is auto-selected. there's no pause and no options to select. you just keep the games rolling in a best of 3 in 3 minute rounds. after that, you can pick if you'd like to continue playing, then you do it all again

[xDerekRx]

Yeah ive messed around alot with Bomberman online and there is nothing allowing you to select options which is odd.

Manji we will get that 2v2 Bomberman game going one of these days.

[Macabre]

Also out of curiosity what other custom projects have you done?

Didn't see that, most of my fabrications are shell / paint modifications. My #4 favorite game of all time is Scud, the disposable assassin, and just for that game I modified two of the orange saturn light guns with inner weights, painted black, and added thick hooked spikes on the back of the hammer (i think thats what its called).

I tend to do stupid shit like taking apart shells of stuff and making them look (to what I think) is pretty, like my version 1 genesis that has a ring of spikes around the circular part of the cartridge insert, painted to look like a robotnick machine. Outside of videogame nonsense I have a tendency to paint / add stuff / take apart gas masks and respirators for pure vanity purposes.

After my list of console projects are out of the way, and i gain some knowledge about controller conversions, I plan on making a universal sega light gun (with genesis, saturn, and dreamcast connections), possibly in the shell of my ps2/xbox lcd barrette (a pure resident evil 3 Jill Valentine homage, i have much love for her!~)



Back on topic, and an update;

I've decided to proceede with making a pair of Saturn Bomberman "Bomb" consoles, meaning two consoles with netlink modems built in, built into a spherical case made to look like a bomb (with those fun light-fiber optic toys at the top with red/orange lights on a rotator inside, to simulate a fuse).

The first (my console), will have two multitaps built in and taken apart, with the controller female ends spread apart (most likely 10x saturn controller exension cables truncated), so that the circumferance ring around the bomb will have 10 controller female ends.

The second (the one i plan on gifting my friend), will have instead a pair of wireless controllers, where I plan on merging an sbomb controller shell with the guts of the wireless controllers.

(the sbomb controller can be seen in the bottem left of this google-found image). I have two of these, one mint in box, another for playing with. I'll sacrifice my playing one for him, and find another for the second of the pair, and paint them to be the white and black bomberman on each controller.

I did get my hands on a pair of official white Japanese wireless saturn controllers for damn cheep, but due to their rarity, i'm having a hard time actually putting them to this project, and am instead wanting to keep them in my hardware collection. So i've also found a pair of these, which I'm praying are good controllers. (i say that because the official wireless released controllers for genesis and saturn work AMAZINGLY! Butt the wireless released controllers that are not official, like the genesis dual turbos, and the pictured above ones, are quite shitty).


I also read that the netlink modem only functions properly on us released saturns, which does slow me down a little, as I had planned on using my extra japanese saturn with a broken and horribly stained shell for the second of the pair, so I'm now searching for another system.




Now a question of most vital importance;

Should I invest in a direct dial phone line, or one threw my cable/internet box?

[Warp2063]

Japanese and US Saturns are nearly identical. It would be quite easy to region mod your Japanese system to make it US, and then convert it to your special console. I don't think there should be any problems using a US Netlink on it.

Digital phone lines almost never work for the NetLink (due to the lag introduced by the conversion of analog to digital and back again), so you'd be better off investing in a regular analog one if you wanted to play.

I can't seem to see the sbomb image you're trying to link to; it seems your link goes to the Satakore main page.

I've been meaning to try a console mod for a while now. I have an idea for one, but I have yet to get all of the parts that I'll need. I've done controller mods before, however.

[Silence the Fallen]

Partly true. You definitely can't just connect the two directly together. To dial out, the Saturn requires a dial tone, and to pick up, the Saturn requires a ring signal. However, you don't need two phone lines to do this.

The only way to do this without using two phone lines is by using a telephone line simulator - a box that provides a dial tone for the Saturn dialing "out" and a ring signal for the Saturn that should be "picking up". They make these for prisons, people doing telecommunications testing, and telephone aficionados. As such, they're not very common, and therefore kind of pricey, especially for ones that do all that automatically. A cheap, manual one might be around $100, while you're probably looking at closer to $200 for a cheap automated one. It's been a while since I went looking for them... I could be wrong on the prices.

Wow!!! I haven't posted here in quite some time. Most of my time is spent on the Digital Press forums but I felt compelled to come back and brows these forums a bit and I'm glad I did.

For years I had wished there was a way to play Saturn Netlink games in the same room, on two separate TV's and not be required to pay for a phone line, let alone 2 phone lines. I wanted to find a way to play the Netlink games in similar fashion to the Saturn's and Playstation's Link cable games. I could just imagine playing a Duke Match against a friend in the same room.

So Warp... Are you saying if I buy a "telephone line simulator" and plug the Netlink phone line cable from both Saturns into the device, then I can achieve my goal? I never knew these things existed, but if they allow me to setup and play Saturn Netlink matches in the same room, and don't require a phone line then I'm ordering one ASAP!

[Warp2063]

As I don't own one, I've never actually tested it, but it should work, as long as it provides both a dial tone for the dialing Saturn and a ring signal to the waiting Saturn. All it does is pretend to be a real phone line. The main difference is that it doesn't care what number you dial, as there's only one other place for your call to go.

http://www.hearmeclear.com/dle-200b.html

There's the one I would buy, except I don't know if I want to dump $115 on it.

[Silence the Fallen]

Awesome!

I did a bit of research and found a review of the product on Amazon and with the specs listed on the page you linked to It looks like it should work.

In North America, the standard ring cadence is "2-4", or two seconds of ringing followed by four seconds of silence. According to the review on Amazon this device does that amongst several other ring patterns. Here is everything they listed:

External DIP sets: Ring cadence (long-long, short-short-long, short long-short, 2-seconds on/4 seconds off), audio volume, and answer mode (immediate ringdown or 2-seconds of dial-tone followed by ringdown mode).

Also one of the features listed on the page you linked to was in fact... Connecting modems together. This really does sound like it will do the trick. I'm going to shop around (and ask around some other forums) a bit and see what other Phone line simulators and reviews I can come across.

I would pay $115.00 in heart beat if I knew for a fact the device will work for what we want it to do. Thanks for all the help Warp!!!

[Auto-Fox]

Phone-line simulator, huh? Y'know, that would be a GREAT way to demo the NetLink at cons and stuff like that... raise awareness of the little black box.
Maybe inspire the mod community to develop NetLink patches for Saturn game ROMs.