saturn "vs link cable" (new pictures posted Nov 2n

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Macabre
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saturn "vs link cable" (new pictures posted Nov 2n

Post by Macabre »

So I've had a legit sega brand one sitting in a japanese box with pretty looking words I can't understand for...years.

And now I have a 2nd party one I purchased off ebay coming my way, with box and hopefully some instructions that I can understand.

The same seller had this one also;

http://cgi.ebay.com/LINK-CABLE-VS-SEGA- ... 20b40641ee


The only reason I found it was, like when I got the official japanese one, i was searching for a dreamcast vs link cable (which after years has still ghosted me).


Google search yields no information on this cable. I'm praying that the one coming to me in the mail will shed some light on its use. It appears to connect to the serial port just like the dreamcast vs cable does.

Anyone have anything to share?
Last edited by Macabre on Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Warp2063
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Post by Warp2063 »

Heh, I'd like to own a Dreamcast link cable as well... Don't think I'm going to be able to get one anytime soon, although I do have a potential workaround...

Yeah, there's not much to say about the link cable for the Saturn. Serial port to serial port. Very few games officially support it, and even fewer unofficially support it. It's around as difficult to find a list of games that can use the link cable as it is to actually find a link cable. Most of the lists are full of speculation and contradictions. I've tried to find lists for people before, and usually end up more confused than when I started. Personally, I don't think the Saturn link cable is all that worth it, other than as a collector's curiosity. *shrugs*
I have my Saturns, I have some of my games, I have a RasPi. Gotta put all this stuff together!
Macabre
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Post by Macabre »

The seller notes that it works with "Games supporting this feature include Virtual On, Sega Rally Championship, Duke Nukem 3D, Saturn Bomberman, Gebockers, Steeldom and more."

Maybe thats on the box, but I shall investigate.

Mind sharing your workaround idea for the dreamcast cable?

I've been looking for one for years, and have only had just reports of "broken dragoncast" cables and conflicting reports between using official disc / boot import discs / burnt discs vs different cables (typically how the "dragoncast" cable is unreliable for virtua on, but almost always works with the racing games, but the official dreamcast cable is the holy grail of the series).

I know of so few people with one that I can't even get them to crack the shell on their cable to show the pcb, else I'd have tried to make my own. I know a guy from the dc-talk forum (adam) that has the dragoncast cable but he didn't respond to my request of taking the shell off of the thing.

I know its easy to get the serial cables from the neo-geo pocket thing, I had stripped one for my dreamcast -> pc cable, and am considering buying another for a dreamcast sd card reader. But I also know how easy it is to solder to the 9 pins on the inside of the dreamcast serial port.

I just don't know what goes on between the two cable ends. :cry:
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Warp2063
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Post by Warp2063 »

Ah, my mistake. I forgot that there was a PCB in there.

Correction: I am sort of looking into a workaround for a Dreamcast link cable.
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wip3outguy7
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Post by wip3outguy7 »

It would be nice if someone could put together a couple of Saturns and test these lists. It shouldn't be that difficult... put two Saturns together and boot up some games.
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Post by JerryTerrifying »

Well not that many people have two saturns, two tvs and two copies of each game. I've got the two tvs adn the two saturns but I don't have the link cable or any of the games. I've only got on modded Saturn so I'd still need real copies of the games.
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Macabre
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Post by Macabre »

I'll be testing very shortly with my pathetic-dork-sized library, with both official & the above ebay link cable. For shits and giggles I'll even test the first US version Saturn vs the second US version Saturn (oval vs circle button) for difference (doubt there is any, but i know NOTHING about the serial port on the back of it).

I've had excessive amounts of experience with three of the games that the ebay seller claims works, so I'll also comment where I can about game alterations (slow down / lag / frame rate).

I don't usually use copy's of games, but for this testing I don't mind. I'm looking for an iso or .cdi of the game Gebockers (the above listed japanese exclusives).

I found a burnable copy of Steeldom from the every-reliable Roberam from snesorama;

http://snesorama.us/board/showthread.php?t=15980

If anyone can help me figure out what the translation for the options are in the game, it might be helpful.




edit; a fun comment at the bottem of this semi-review;

http://www.segagagadomain.com/saturn5/steeldom.htm

I'll sniff around that site and see if he makes that comment elsewhere.

edit edit; much like this

http://www.segagagadomain.com/saturn9/gebockers.htm

Adding possibly doom and daytona to the things-to-test list.



I pray that these games don't all have super-secret press X+A+Left trigger whilst doing a handstand to activate the vs.link cable option like most of the dreamcast games do.







edit edit edit; I kept calling it the "vs link cable" or something along those lines. Its officiall called the "DirectLink" (one word), which really helps;

http://segaretro.org/DirectLink
USA/Europe DirectLink Games

* Daytona USA Demo
* Doom *
* Independence Day **
* Hexen (accessed through debug menu) *
* Virtual On
* Wipeout

* - Does not work in Europe. However, they have only been tested on Blaze's system link, which is the unofficial brand.

** - According to the manual (pages 7 & 8), there is a 'Network' mode which allows you to use the DirectLinks. However, when you start the game, even with a 'Network' hooked up, it appears to do nothing.
Japanese DirectLink Games

* Daytona USA: CCE
* Gebockers Special Pack
* Gun Griffon 2
* Steeldom
* Wipeout
and even better;

http://www.gamefaqs.com/saturn/916393-saturn/faqs/13876

From that faq;

~Baku Baku may or may not work (might have been an initial intention...christ i love this game, I sorta-semi-hope so)
USA/Europe-

Daytona USA demo*
Doom (unconfirmed, but does not work with European copies)****
Independence Day***
Hexen (Does not work with the PAL version; accessed through debug menu;
Slightly Buggy)****
Virtua On (completely UNCONFIRMED, note if you wish to confirm this game,
please state if you're using Netlink versions or normal versions of the game)
Wipeout
**I have heard rumors that Duke Nukem OR Quake may have this feature**

*Thanks to Dustin for reminding me that Daytona USA demo had a Directlink
option!

***According to the manual (pages 7 & 8), there is a 'Network' mode which
allows you to use the Directlinks, however, when you start the game, even with
a 'Network' hooked up, it appears to do nothing. Thanks to A Murder of Crows
for the info.

****According to I.Mecking, both Doom and Hexen don't work in PAL/Europe,
however, he is using Blaze's system link, which is the unoffical brand. His
webpage address is- Segacollection.com

Japan-

Daytona USA: CCE
Gebockers Special Pack
Gun Griffon 2
Steeldom
Wipeout
I am unsure if any other games have this feature.... Anyone know?
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Post by Warp2063 »

If you can provide screenshots of the option screens, I can give translation a shot. Got a digital camera handy?
I have my Saturns, I have some of my games, I have a RasPi. Gotta put all this stuff together!
Macabre
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Post by Macabre »

I'd have to get more blank cd's before I can start all of this. Also if anyone knows much about programing / emulation, I spat out an idea here;

http://dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewtop ... f=5&t=2599

I know that a normal saturn game can be around 1/5 the size of a dreamcast game, so hopefully that turns some heads / gets some attention.
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Post by Macabre »

I was having a very hard time locating a few of the iso's of these possible games, so I went ahead and tagged a few for legit copies (i had heard that the japanese version of daytona circuit edition controlled better than other releases anyways, so double bonus :D )

I also picked these two up;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0500398071

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0461783583\\


Both coming with link cables, I'll compare those with the one I have and the one I still have coming to me and see if they are any different (current assumption = the two box set cables are sega brand, second assumption = these were the first two games featuring this as a promo-deal sort of thing)

~For those interested in this, those cables + game box set is alot cheaper than buying the cable!~

I'll also dissect one once I see how they all work and, if its simply a pin-to-pin connection, post a suggestion guide for making a homemade cable.

Curiously all reviews I find of those two games claim that they are Virtual On rip offs. But I'm having mixed results when finding release dates.

Its also possible that there is a Virtual On boxset with the cable, but I haven't found it yet.




I will go ahead and test...but... i do NOT want to keep saturn Doom or Independence day in my system longer than they have to, those damn discs might contaminate my system in some inhuman way. (anyways Hexen's better and someone begging for doom multiplayer can just play it on the dreamcast now with its new online support!)





edit; forgot to mention, I LOVE wipeout, forgot how fun this game was when I firest played it. Its so smooth, and when I was coming from games like roadrash, then played this, it made me so happy.

And it works via vs link cable. Confirmed.

Does anyone have Powerslave / Exhumed (region name difference) handy and willing to see if it has any link options?
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Post by Warp2063 »

I can run ISOs on two Saturns simultaneously, assuming whatever game I'm using is US-region encoded. I just don't have a link cable.

I also own a legit copy of Doom - the Japanese release. I originally bought it because someone told me that someone else wanted it, but right now it's just sitting in my room.
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Post by Macabre »

I got the very first linked cable in today. The box has NOTHING mentioning games, and literally refrained from using the word "sega" anywhere (calling it the "ss"), a mere cute toy. Its also very overpriced, I would suggest those looking for the cable to continue hunting for box sets.

Like this one;

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEELDOM-vs-cable-S ... 2c51da462d

Finding these box sets are most likely alot easier / cheaper than buying the retail Sega cable.

Close up pictures! The cable is a legit Sega item, just like my retail Sega cable.

That box set + shipping is alone cheaper than the very first non-sega cable. I really feel like I wasted $20.
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Warp2063
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Post by Warp2063 »

Warp2063 wrote:Ah, my mistake. I forgot that there was a PCB in there.

Correction: I am sort of looking into a workaround for a Dreamcast link cable.
I have a guess as to what's on that PCB, but it's only a guess. I'm wondering if it's like the Neo Geo Pocket's cable, which apparently "contains a full set of line drivers." As I understand it, the practical upshots of including line drivers would be: a) ensuring a strong signal from either side, and b) helping to keep either serial port from dying a horrible death if a short occurred in the cable. Again, if I understand it correctly, the NGP link cable doesn't do anything to the messages between the system, it's just there to guard against malfunctions from shorts or weak signals.

I'm guessing that this might be the same case for the Dreamcast link cable. If my guess is correct, then theoretically we shouldn't need the circuitry in the middle, per se, although it would definitely be safer and more reliable to have it. I know that the Dreamcast serial port has a couple power pins in there, which would make sense for powering a line driver or maybe some other low-powered piece of equipment. So, if I'm right, all that we would have to do is wire up the right transmit and receive pins to each other from the two systems, and probably some sort of clock synchronization or something. Pretty easy.

I guess another possibility would be that the serial port could have been used to connect to multiple Dreamcasts somehow, and that the circuitry there is just to manage the communications between the two systems instead of more, but I don't think this is the case, as I think there would be a lot more circuitry than what's hidden under that little black plastic bump on the one picture of the inside of a link cable that I've seen. Unless that circuitry isn't needed because there are only two systems... but I'm probably overthinking this here.

One last thing that occurs to me is that there could be some feature of the cable that identifies to the system what exactly it is, not unlike how an Xbox or 360's video cable identifies itself to the system... but I don't think this is the case for the serial port.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.
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Post by xDerekRx »

Jumped on this topic late but if you look back to last year I did some research on this.

I bought the Steeldom Bundle just like you because it was really the only way to get one of these link cables.

I got it to test one game. Hexen.

I got 2 copies of Hexen, 2 tvs, 2 saturns together and it actually worked. I made a post about it last year in one of these forums.

Its actually kind of cool. Its not advertised at all and its completely broken. But the developers left it in the Debug menu.

To do it in Hexen you type in the cheat menu and goto Debug. Then there is this little option for 2 player link play.

Its insanely buggy but actually works for a brief time. Its pretty cool and sucks the makers never finished it. Planned on making a video of it just for test purposes.

Also , like Warp mentioned, Japanese version of Doom does link cable play but I need a second copy of Doom which Ive looked for forever. Warp sell me yours please! The US Version of Doom advertises Link Cable play on the back of the case but its nowhere to found in the actual game.

It was because Rage software rushed the port to the Saturn. Another company finished the Japanese version later that year and included the Link play.

The truth is basically no US games have the link cable play but its cool in a Saturn nerd type of way to mess with teh games that included it in the Debug menu. The link cable was really made for a few Jap games.

That GameFaq is completely wrong. I did a lot of research on the Link Cable and even got in touch with the guy that did the FAQ.

The truth is only a couple of the games on the list have Link play. I even had to tell him to update the Hexen information.

Also Duke, Quake and Powerslave have no link cable features whatsoever.

And whoever said Hexen is better than Doom is drinking something strong! Doom is one of the best games ever created!
Netlink Games Owned:
-Duke Nukem 3D
-Sega Rally
-Bomberman
-Virtua On
-Daytona CCE Netlink Edition

If you wanna play just give me a holla!
Macabre
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Post by Macabre »

xDerekRx wrote:And whoever said Hexen is better than Doom is drinking something strong! Doom is one of the best games ever created!
I implied that the saturn port of the game Doom (US) was rubbish, compared to other releases. Doom is indeed far superior than hexen (and it has sequels!)

Thanks for the info! Will have to focus on more japanese releases instead of relying on my library (will take more effort).
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